Submitted by pak sheikh on Wed, 01/10/2008 - 04:01.
Hi Guys,I actually had a quick looked on IOSPE PHOTOS @ Jay Pfahl web site n i notice this sp is not pulchellum.It was tag as Dend moschatum.So could u guys pls confirm on this, n if it so pls do the editing on the name of this sp.Thanks in advance guys....
Hi pak sheikh, you image is definitely Dendrobium pulchellum, I had one of these for many years.
The colour combination, shape of sepals and petals look correct, the blotches in the lip are also correct.
Regards
bernabu
Submitted by pak sheikh on Wed, 01/10/2008 - 04:20.
Hi there Benard.......well i suppose u are the expert on this.....OK if that so, its fine for me then...n i'll stick it as pulchellum....Thanks again Benard.
I'm no expert, I know D.maschetum looks very similar, also my plant could have been named incorrectly. So unless and until someone else can add any further info, I should leave your name as it stands.
bernabu
Submitted by Christine on Wed, 01/10/2008 - 13:05.
Hi
I posted a photo of moschatum a while ago on this website, it looks like mine and mine is definitely a moschatum. I had it for 24years now it grows in my garden, the canes are over 1m high.
Christine
Hey Christine I think your plant may be the same possible primary hybrid as the plant in this post. For others a link to Christines plant http://orchidsonline.com.au/node/2226
We have a nice little debate going here (always great to see!) to which I would like to add my 2 cents worth.
I tend to think this one may be a hybrid between Dendrobium pulchellum and Dendrobium moschatum. I say this because it has the general shape of a Dendrobium moschatum but the colouration of Dendrobium pulchellum. In general the flower looks to share traits from both species....about midway between to my eyes anyway.
Note in the photo posted in this post how the labellum has a definite pouch. Dendrobium pulchellum does not really have a pouch as such it may look like it from a few angles but its more of a slight fold up not a distinct pouch. Photos tend to make it look more like a pouch for some unknown reason?
EDIT: Hmmm...I may be wrong about the hybrid thing...it may be that this post is Dendrobium moschatum after all. It appears that Dendrobium moschatum has a colour form just like this one and Christines. see http://www.orchidspecies.com/orphotdir/dendmoschatum.jpg
Submitted by Christine on Fri, 03/10/2008 - 11:23.
Hi Wellsy,
thank you for your comment, maybe your Dendrobium is a diffent version of moschatum from a different area? I have seen variations of the same species before, the shape of yours and mine is definitely the same and pak sheik's is the same shape but lighter in colour then mine, just a thought!
Regards Christine
Did you follow the web link I put up which shows the same colour as mine?
I personally have never come across your particular colour variety before you both posted your individual photos so I was a little surprised at the colours of your plants. Your plants colour is more like what I have come to expect in Dendrobium pulchellum...see my photo...and to me was one of the reasons this debate was running.
There has to be some defining character that seperates these two species, colour alone does not define a species (although it helps initially) we shall have to keep searching for info.
Edit: Could the difference simply be the difference in the shallowness of the pouch on D.pulchellum and the fuller rounder pouch of D.moschatum? (an earlier observation put forward by wellsy), or could it be that the petals of D.moschatum are fuller and rounder and more upright? or maybe a combination of both these features.
bernabu
I believe that is the main difference Bernard (the lack of a pouch). The way the sepals and petals are held in D. pulchellum is also distinctive. Especially when the flowers are fully developed.
Looking at your images,I see what you mean wellsy, there is no pouch on pulchellum the sides of the lip are slightly curled upwards and inwards, the front of the lip more so. Also the petals and sepals on pulchellum are more lax. Looking at pak sheikh's flowers, the front of the lip appears to be raised much higher, giving the appearance of a pouch, looking at the rear of the same lip shows that the sides are hardly raised. I still tend to lean to the name D.pulchellum for pak's flowers, the exaggerated raised front portion of the lip might be a variant of that species.
bernabu
Why would anyone want to hybridize these two species? They almost look identical, nothing would be gained. Given that both these species have the same distribution range, one must assume that frequent cross-pollination occurs naturally, perhaps pollinated several times with different parents. I know that this does'nt help to identify our image but it is certainly a possibility.
bernabu
Submitted by pak sheikh on Sun, 05/10/2008 - 23:07.
Hi guys......sorry for highlighting this issue at the first place.....i suppose we had a long disscussion on this sp...Thanks to u Wellsy for providing the photo as a reference.And after reviewing the photo n reading all the comment made by u guys i can now firmed n agreed with Bill that the sp above is moschantum....Actually i had another one which is exactly similar with the one post by Wellsy on this ref.photo ie the yellow form but then due to the poor shooting technnic i would rather not to post it here.
Once again thanks to u guys in helping out on this matter....
Regards,
Pak sheikh
ps. I suppose Wellsy could edit the id on this sp...
Dend.id
Hi Guys,I actually had a quick looked on IOSPE PHOTOS @ Jay Pfahl web site n i notice this sp is not pulchellum.It was tag as Dend moschatum.So could u guys pls confirm on this, n if it so pls do the editing on the name of this sp.Thanks in advance guys....
Regards.
Pak sheikh
identity
Hi pak sheikh, you image is definitely Dendrobium pulchellum, I had one of these for many years.
The colour combination, shape of sepals and petals look correct, the blotches in the lip are also correct.
Regards
bernabu
Is that so.....
Hi there Benard.......well i suppose u are the expert on this.....OK if that so, its fine for me then...n i'll stick it as pulchellum....Thanks again Benard.
Regards,
Pak sheikh.
slow down
I'm no expert, I know D.maschetum looks very similar, also my plant could have been named incorrectly. So unless and until someone else can add any further info, I should leave your name as it stands.
bernabu
Den. moschatum
To me this one is Den. moschatum, it has a much larger hairy lip structure than Den. pulchellum.
Bil
Den. moschatum
Hi
I posted a photo of moschatum a while ago on this website, it looks like mine and mine is definitely a moschatum. I had it for 24years now it grows in my garden, the canes are over 1m high.
Christine
same possible primary hybrid
Hey Christine I think your plant may be the same possible primary hybrid as the plant in this post. For others a link to Christines plant http://orchidsonline.com.au/node/2226
Regards wellsy
nice little debate
We have a nice little debate going here (always great to see!) to which I would like to add my 2 cents worth.
I tend to think this one may be a hybrid between Dendrobium pulchellum and Dendrobium moschatum. I say this because it has the general shape of a Dendrobium moschatum but the colouration of Dendrobium pulchellum. In general the flower looks to share traits from both species....about midway between to my eyes anyway.
Note in the photo posted in this post how the labellum has a definite pouch. Dendrobium pulchellum does not really have a pouch as such it may look like it from a few angles but its more of a slight fold up not a distinct pouch. Photos tend to make it look more like a pouch for some unknown reason?
I have posted my Dendrobium moschatum here http://orchidsonline.com.au/node/4400
and my Dendrobium pulchellum here http://orchidsonline.com.au/node/4401
So what do you all think!
EDIT: Hmmm...I may be wrong about the hybrid thing...it may be that this post is Dendrobium moschatum after all. It appears that Dendrobium moschatum has a colour form just like this one and Christines. see http://www.orchidspecies.com/orphotdir/dendmoschatum.jpg
This post is definitely (IMHO) not Dendrobium pulchellum though. See another source of image here http://www.orchidspecies.com/denpulchellum.htm
Regards wellsy
Very interesting
Hi Wellsy,
thank you for your comment, maybe your Dendrobium is a diffent version of moschatum from a different area? I have seen variations of the same species before, the shape of yours and mine is definitely the same and pak sheik's is the same shape but lighter in colour then mine, just a thought!
Regards Christine
your colour variety
Did you follow the web link I put up which shows the same colour as mine?
I personally have never come across your particular colour variety before you both posted your individual photos so I was a little surprised at the colours of your plants. Your plants colour is more like what I have come to expect in Dendrobium pulchellum...see my photo...and to me was one of the reasons this debate was running.
Regards wellsy
interesting
There has to be some defining character that seperates these two species, colour alone does not define a species (although it helps initially) we shall have to keep searching for info.
Edit: Could the difference simply be the difference in the shallowness of the pouch on D.pulchellum and the fuller rounder pouch of D.moschatum? (an earlier observation put forward by wellsy), or could it be that the petals of D.moschatum are fuller and rounder and more upright? or maybe a combination of both these features.
bernabu
main difference
I believe that is the main difference Bernard (the lack of a pouch). The way the sepals and petals are held in D. pulchellum is also distinctive. Especially when the flowers are fully developed.
Regards wellsy
difference
Looking at your images,I see what you mean wellsy, there is no pouch on pulchellum the sides of the lip are slightly curled upwards and inwards, the front of the lip more so. Also the petals and sepals on pulchellum are more lax. Looking at pak sheikh's flowers, the front of the lip appears to be raised much higher, giving the appearance of a pouch, looking at the rear of the same lip shows that the sides are hardly raised. I still tend to lean to the name D.pulchellum for pak's flowers, the exaggerated raised front portion of the lip might be a variant of that species.
bernabu
Another possibility
Why would anyone want to hybridize these two species? They almost look identical, nothing would be gained. Given that both these species have the same distribution range, one must assume that frequent cross-pollination occurs naturally, perhaps pollinated several times with different parents. I know that this does'nt help to identify our image but it is certainly a possibility.
bernabu
As an aid in resolving this
As an aid in resolving this discussion I decided to put the two images I linked above on this comment as an aid for comparison:-
Dendrobium pulchellum
Dendrobium moschatum
Regards wellsy
Put it to rest!!!!
Pak's photo/plant above is Den. moschatum without any doubt in my mind.
Wellsy, your photo/plant here is definitely Den. pulchellum http://orchidsonline.com.au/node/4401
Forget the colours that you see, these plants vary greatly, look at the lip structure, it is a dead give away to the identity.
Den. moschatum has a lip structure that is cupped and hairy.
Den. pulchellum is hairy lipped but not cupped.
Bill
Id resolved
Hi guys......sorry for highlighting this issue at the first place.....i suppose we had a long disscussion on this sp...Thanks to u Wellsy for providing the photo as a reference.And after reviewing the photo n reading all the comment made by u guys i can now firmed n agreed with Bill that the sp above is moschantum....Actually i had another one which is exactly similar with the one post by Wellsy on this ref.photo ie the yellow form but then due to the poor shooting technnic i would rather not to post it here.
Once again thanks to u guys in helping out on this matter....
Regards,
Pak sheikh
ps. I suppose Wellsy could edit the id on this sp...
Keep them comng!!!
Nothing to be sorry about Pak, we all learn from discussions like this one.
Bill